tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post8279431537340895638..comments2023-11-22T08:07:00.863-08:00Comments on KEEPING IT REAL: JOHN G. JONES: THE MASONIC 'CLANDESTINE' ARGUMENT JUST WILL NOT GO AWAYFAHIM KNIGHThttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00567827759311275290noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-84118224147610687192023-11-22T08:07:00.863-08:002023-11-22T08:07:00.863-08:00As a four letter Mason, I would like all involved ...As a four letter Mason, I would like all involved in this debate to recognize some undeniable facts. There is a light in the center of the lodge on the altar. That light tells us the letter kills but the spirit gives life; it also admonishes brothers to reconcile before making any requests of God. I would be remiss if I didn't say that it is clear that an abused slave tends to be short on compassion or empathy. According to the record, he left before the charge and punishment without the intention on returning. The attitude of punishing an ex sounds like a disgruntled and scorned partner. Remembering the reason we came into masonry; to subdue my passions ans improve myself in masonry, makes this a case study as to the validity of the claims of many involved in this. You can have an issue with someone who does you dirty and then throws dirt on you but Grand master John G Jones did not do that. Instead he went on to blaze the trail and make some great masons and build some powerful lodges. PHA can be as upset as they want just remember victimizing innocent people cause they are not like you is the epitome of darkness. Ultimately people do What they want. The GAOTU will be the final judge. In closing, there is more of a benefit to unite under the banner of Brotherhood of Man cause God will not be judging based on your title but your behavior. Stay in the Light BrothersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-6202095298108552382021-07-07T10:26:56.137-07:002021-07-07T10:26:56.137-07:00I agree with I'll WilliamsI agree with I'll Williams Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05708554053515798890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-33936946762337182902019-01-01T09:36:51.566-08:002019-01-01T09:36:51.566-08:00John Hairston
I would argue that it is not a misin...John Hairston<br />I would argue that it is not a misinformation about Prince Hall the man but rather Prince Hall the organization which is two separate topics. It can not be denied that Prince Hall broke the barrier when he received his charter from GLE to establish African Lodge #459; however, his successors had no authority to establish themselves as a Grand Body. They had no governing body (sure its on paper but that established no right to do with only a blue lodge dispensation). It is documented: "Notwithstanding the unusual transformation of its original Lodge into a Grand Lodge, the philosophy and practice of Prince Hall Masonry today are of exemplary regularity. "http://www.thephylaxis.org/bogus/regularitypha.php. I do not make apologies for the history of John G. Jones as he is long gone but I can say that a lot of misinformation on both sides has historically been spewed at one another (not the public because they really could care less) for the purpose of what??? Black A.F. & A.M. have remained strong for over 100 yrs. I would argue that this relates to the topic of tribalism and traditionalism. While true some spurious pop-up lodges have taken advantage of the craft and its founding beliefs for their own personal gain, but as do all things go in freemasonry -- time will be their judge. There is no governing body with the reins held to Freemasonry if that were the cases Prince Hall Freemasonry would not be thriving in bliss of amity with GLofS and its other networks. Just because you don't recognize a body that is operating within the principle tenets of the craft and showing the work that doesn't give you the rite to speak on them--sell your Brand (as you all say). Now if they are ding soething outside of the norm or their going against the principle tenets then call them what they are BOGUS--in history and practice. I am a meber of the Most Worshipful Lazarus Grand Lodge and newly installed WM of Carl Stephens Masonic Lodge No.2 we are regular in practice and lineage. We are recognized a by a Grand Lodge. We practice the 3 degrees of masonry and hold true the values of our great fraternity. No we are not PHA. Why is AFFILIATION more important to whether or not the man is of good report and character. We always hear one side of the story from PHA Masons if you're going to be the historian then you have to present both sides of the event in question in order for the audience to make an informed decision.For me there is not a question that there was a suspension that occurred at the time but there are also many gaps that have yet to be answered. So you're telling me a renowned lawyer gets caught up with legalities. There's more to the story than what is always presented and debated upon. Nicholas. N. Stephensnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-60441498549090465332017-12-09T18:13:53.031-08:002017-12-09T18:13:53.031-08:00Actually it's free and accepted masonActually it's free and accepted masonAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11558037154179506270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-24113580979997108692017-10-26T13:16:53.176-07:002017-10-26T13:16:53.176-07:00Hello Brother's I choose not to read or engage...Hello Brother's I choose not to read or engage in any of these conversations, but I am a member of a PHO jurisdiction that has the original charter that PHA claims to have but who cares. We put to much focus on a piece of paper that actually perfecting our craft. Who told England they was the mother of masonry, who empowered them masonic thought was developed in ancient Egypt not England, Brothers do your research do believe what has been told, majority of the older brother in their 60's and 70's had masonry passed down some of them could not read or comprehend that well now we can research, Do your homework and then you can be truly enlighten.<br /><br />Ill Walter Williams 33rd Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06065092878929618022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-78051336108147899002017-04-16T18:18:33.868-07:002017-04-16T18:18:33.868-07:00Peace, I did not create a world that was steeped i...Peace, I did not create a world that was steeped in racism and have revolved around white supremacy. White Freemasonry has a lot to atone for when it cames to understanding the historical role they played as an institution, that systematically overlooked the universal principles of Masonry and created two Masonic Orders, one black and one white. For example, for over 250 years white Masons in the United States of America segregated themselves from black Masons and falsely labeled all black Masonic Orders, which included Prince Hall Masonry the oldest black Masonic Fraternity in America as being irregular and clandestine. These motivations were rooted in the epitome of racism and the white Masonic Order was in violation of the three basic Masonic foundational principles of Morality, Friendship and Brotherly Love (yet their conduct represented bigotry, discrimination and racism). There are still eight or nine southern states that still will not allow a black man to join their white Masonic lodges and refused to recognize the black Prince Hall Masonic Order in 2017 as a legitimate Masonic Order. But to accuse me of creating an environment of racial hostility is ingenious. Perhaps you need to question those who took Masonic oaths of brotherhood, but their behavior have been a clear indication of Masonic hypocrisy. Now, I am a different type of so-called American Negro; why should I seek unity with white Masons who do not respect us as human beings and do not respect our humanity? The Honorable Prince Hall in 1784, he petitioned the white Masonic Order in the United States and was denied entry because of his race and skin color; moreover, Prince Hall Masonry evolved because of white racism and being denied membership and this led to the establishment of the all black lodge known as lodge number 459 in PHA history, which transitioned into African Lodge number 1. I make no apology for being a black nationalist and Pan-Africanist (and live and teach Afrocentric theories) who believe and advocate in the positive benefits of black Masonic unity. We have to be taught to love ourselves before we can love anyone else. My recommendation to you will be to work in the best interest of Freemasonry to eradicate the unjust tentacles and the last vestiges of white supremacy in Masonry, that we can coexist and stand plumb, level and square on all the universal principles that governs our Order.<br /><br />Fraternally yours,<br />Bro. Fahim A. Knight-El FAHIM KNIGHThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00567827759311275290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-30005912975581814252017-04-16T07:25:29.449-07:002017-04-16T07:25:29.449-07:00The goal of Freemasonry is Masonic unity, not &quo...The goal of Freemasonry is Masonic unity, not "black Masonic unity." Until you learn to look into a man's soul as a spark grom the Divine Soul, and not at the color of his skin, you cannot speak unity, harmony, or universal benevolence - which is the science of Ancient Freemasonry. Join a legal lodge and work to heal divisions within world wide Freemasonry so that the world at large may know that Masons love one another. Peace Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12793403729715433136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-29520949378190601592016-12-22T16:19:25.774-08:002016-12-22T16:19:25.774-08:00I see masonic ignorance coming from everywhere jus...I see masonic ignorance coming from everywhere just as my brother John Hariston did. Expelled not suspended and where is all this 4 letter foolishness coming from. Would Fahim Knight please tell me why 4 letter is so much more special than 3 ? LOL. Sorry as I find no difference in them except that one is Ancient Free & Accepted Mason and the other being Ancient & Accepted Mason. In todays legal and just masonic world there is no difference between the two other than jurisdictions that chose to use one or the other. So many Bogus , Spurious, and Clandestine think if they have 4 0r 5 letters after their G.L. name they are legal.. How pathetic.. Please educate them Fahim Knight as soon as possible, if possible.Thank you in advance.<br />Ev Sayre P.M.<br /> <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09087443815316642822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-55569876545164039912016-02-13T19:02:55.526-08:002016-02-13T19:02:55.526-08:00I am also a 4 letter from San Antonio texas Alamo ...I am also a 4 letter from San Antonio texas Alamo #1491 and we do great work brothers love the order I see PHA as brothers as well a MM is a brother anyway hopefully one day we will stop the separation I doubt our grand lodge would have an issue it's just instead of brothers teaching themselves there taught by there slave masters<br /><br />Bro Terrance Scott<br />Secretary <br />ALAMO LODGE #1491. A.F&A.M<br />S.A TXAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-52368615741091918992016-02-12T22:15:13.936-08:002016-02-12T22:15:13.936-08:00Thank you Brother for the beautiful piece you wrot...Thank you Brother for the beautiful piece you wrote, I'm from a four letter Grand lodge in California, We recognize the Prince Hall family & we also would like all of this to come to a end. Who's right who's wrong know one will really know. There is a lot of information saying that they are right & information saying we are right. But, staying separate is just helping the white man keep us from growing as people. Even if they say that they now recognize you they still call us the N. Word behind are backs, it's funny but, they the white lodges have three & four letter Grand Lodge's & have no problems so, why do we? <br />We will come together one day sooner than later.<br />Thank you, Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15914710195530601890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-78111252625936413542014-04-29T07:07:56.654-07:002014-04-29T07:07:56.654-07:00I think Brother Hairston comments needed to be ans...I think Brother Hairston comments needed to be answered by me given it a full response. I disagreed with his assessment because it lacked a true Masonic vision and in my opinion the scope of it was shallow. But I understand that they were taught not have "Masonic Intercourse" with clandestine Masons and I blame the PHA Grand Lodge jurisdictions for faulting in their duty to foster black Masonic unity. So I decided to write a complete response to Brother Hairston's diatribe. I will give him this much, his response was very respectful and I did not receive it as a personal attack. We just have two different view points. Here is the link to my response: http://fahimknightsworld.blogspot.com/2014/04/john-g-jones-regular-versus-irregular.html <br /><br />Stay Awake Until We Meet Again,<br />Bro. Fahim A. Knight-ElFAHIM KNIGHThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00567827759311275290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-45743630901749321762014-04-23T22:29:52.310-07:002014-04-23T22:29:52.310-07:00I think the proposal of "historical amnesty&q...I think the proposal of "historical amnesty" for John G. Jones is out of the question. John G. Jones committed a Masonic Crime, was found guilty and expelled from Freemasonry. That is the FACTS, whether John G. Jones groups accept that or not. If we extend John G. Jones a pass for the damage he incurred on Freemasonry, then why not do the same for all of those who were expelled or indefinitely suspended.<br />I think John G. Jones members and sympathizers attempt to portray John G. Jones as the victim, and the subsequent bodies formed under his name as recipients of undue attacks from Prince Hall Masons. The fact is that there can be NO conversation until the John G. Jones group FIRST accept the TRUTH as it is. The debate continues, not because Prince Hall masons just need someone to kick, but because when we run into John G. Jones members they have SO MUCH MISINFORMATION on Prince Hall and the Organizations in the various states, and when there is an attempt to correct the misinformation and place them in the right standing with Freemasonry, there is where the debate ensues, based on denial.<br />I see no olive branch being extended to a blatant clandestine group. But there is a way to end the rift. That John G. Jones members join a legitimate Lodge and be good members there.<br />Bro. Fahim A Knight El stated:<br /><br />"I chose to join a Prince Hall (PHA) lodge because they truly have a legitimate warrant/charter that goes back to 1784, so in that department they left no doubt about their history and legal right to authorize degree work, etc., and function openly as a body of Masons."<br /><br />And added to that:<br /><br />"Freemasonry isn't nothing to be played with and some of these crooked fake orders threatens the legitimacy of all Masons."<br /><br />Clandestine organizations could never threaten the legitimacy of the Regular Freemasonry. The Legitimacy has been established, but it could make membership sleighted, because of the damage that has been incurred by these groups. Unity will come when they heal over into regular lodges and give up the illegitimacy of clandestine freemasonry.<br />There is LAW to this, and we must preserve the Order by observing the law. We erase what has been done already. We can just fix the problem. The opportunity to do so stands open to all members who find themselves in clandestine groups...knock on the door of a legitimate lodge and ask to join it.<br /><br />The problem can be solved in one day, but it begins with John G. Jones groups recognizing that they are illegitimate and that their lineage is illegal, and then make the decision to take the PROPER STEPS to address that revelation.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br />WB John L. Hairston<br />MWPHGL of Washington and Jurisdiction<br />J. C. Logan Lodge #53 FAM<br />Seattle, WashingtonThe Quill and The Swordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02700663073157314728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-66009919394678332502014-01-14T17:23:58.779-08:002014-01-14T17:23:58.779-08:00Peace: Thank you for your comment, I do agree some...Peace: Thank you for your comment, I do agree somewhat with your comment; I to think it will continue to be an uphill battle, but I remain optimistic that level heads will at some point prevail (you and I might not see it but our grand children might be the beneficiary). What sense does it make for Masons who claims to be a universal brotherhood, but we allow artificial barriers such as three letter and/or four letter alphabets to serve as a division. Yet, I will never give legitimacy and credence to unauthorized clandestine Masonic groups that have a questionable charter and Masonic history. These groups use Freemasonry to scam potential candidates and Prince Hall Masonry has continued to defend and fight for the integrity of this ancient craft by exposing these 'irregular' Masonic organizations. I am always open for further discussion.<br /><br />Stay Awake Until We Meet Again,<br />Bro. Fahim A. Knight-El<br /><br />FAHIM KNIGHThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00567827759311275290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-64739954643087039342014-01-14T14:17:46.696-08:002014-01-14T14:17:46.696-08:00Greeting bro Knight
Im a 4 letter Freemason from ...Greeting bro Knight<br /><br />Im a 4 letter Freemason from Chicago, i real really like your blog on John G. Jones masonry. I too want Unity within Masonry, but I do not see that happen anytime soon. i would like to email on this topic<br /><br />thank you for your timeAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06244932492331578438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-31786824253255218222013-12-05T10:53:07.344-08:002013-12-05T10:53:07.344-08:00Peace: To the Brother of the Masonic jurisdiction ...Peace: To the Brother of the Masonic jurisdiction of Ohio Most Worshipful Grand Lodge (AF&AM). Firstly, thank you for your comments and that is not to say that I agree with your entire statement. I think history has more to do with how Prince Hall Masonry perceive John G. Jones' Ancient Free and Accepted Masonry than an outright dismissal of them just being classified as irregular and/or clandestine. The Masonic history of John G. Jones remains unresolved in 2013; thus, PHA has allowed this contentious history to linger on for over 100 years without a resolution. Yet, I do believe some of these Masonic Orders are undeserving of becoming a recognized body of Masons because not only are their charters questionable, but they have deviated from the Landmarks of Masonry and are illegal and illegitimate. However, I do not think whole-heartily that Prince Hall Masonry should be the determining entity of which black Masonic order would be received as being a regular body of Masons. We all should be striving for some sort of recognition and at least some aspect of operational unity amongst this diverse Masonic body in the United States of America. I did not join Masonry to have fun; I was led to this path because I was in quest of knowledge and truth. I am a student of Sacred Geometry and the Universal Intelligence led me to the path of Freemasonry. I think we allow these artificial barriers to keep us divided and we must move beyond the Willie Lynch status. <br /><br />Stay Awake Until We Meet Again,<br />Fahim A. Knight-El <br /><br />FAHIM KNIGHThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00567827759311275290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-37138411442287933562013-11-30T15:41:13.491-08:002013-11-30T15:41:13.491-08:00Im a fan of your blog site Mr. Fahim. Im a fan of your blog site Mr. Fahim. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-31872523248012196642013-11-30T15:36:48.686-08:002013-11-30T15:36:48.686-08:00Hello, I'm in a four letter jurisdiction in Oh...Hello, I'm in a four letter jurisdiction in Ohio. MW Benevolent GL. I been traveling 10 years and I have not seen a hint of reconciliation of some sort with the leadership (Iv heard about it from past), I'm sure that does not mean a formal or informal discussion was not attempted between either affiliation and the leadership at some point in time. I am only speaking for myself here. Iv came across some hard line PHAs that blew me off but most of the time I have come across PHAs that will talk with me on that level but not without Q&Aing the heck out of me first but I like a challenge. Especially them knowing I'm not one of them. Whatever given circumstances of these predominately Afro American "Masonic Groups" existing seems to been due to us black men not getting along starting back decades ago. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems we are the only ethnicity of Freemasons that are divided like this. What (mixed) mainstream GL in the US do not have mutual recognition of some sort with each other? Are they divided and tribunal like how the black masons are? I understand the given circumstances and the reasons behind all this mentality but for starters, at least consider having a pow wow session with those groups that has been around for 100 years because those so called clandestine/unrecognized/spurious or whatever term used are most likely not going to die off. Otherwise, continue to not recognize them as regular, so mote it be then. For all those hardcore PHAs that ain't down with that, I get it. My experience in a black AF&AM GL has been fun and educational enough to not leave it despite our own internal issues. The experience could be even more fulfilling and beneficial for a member without having to demit from one predominately black group to another. If I was to demit, it would be for the Masonic experience. I don't have to be Straight off the boat African to experience they culture and history. I don't have to denounce my US citizenship for that experience. I hope that analogy gets interpreted in a context of what I'm trying to imply. We have more similarities than differences but apparently those few differences have such an impact to still keep us divided and may not be worth resolving for whatever it could be worth. I'm not saying let's merge, I'm saying let's have the leadership communicate if they willing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-74363203490704624422013-09-30T16:59:50.429-07:002013-09-30T16:59:50.429-07:00Thank you R. Olausen for your wise comment and I r...Thank you R. Olausen for your wise comment and I recognize that there is a lot in what you have said, that is far beyond what the naked eye is accustom to bringing into focus. This is nothing but pure wisdom.<br /><br />Stay Awake Until We Meet Again,<br />Fahim A. Knight-El FAHIM KNIGHThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00567827759311275290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4957787817614691922.post-11316034105596703832013-09-30T15:23:06.382-07:002013-09-30T15:23:06.382-07:00Good things are bound to happen to people who stud...Good things are bound to happen to people who study what I agreeably call sacred geometry. It is sublime with promise under many names. A key to the Kingdom of symbolism. Glad for your frankness. R. Olausen,9/30/13Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com